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Why the “Good Guy with a Gun?Argument Doesn’t Work With Leftists Rate Topic: -----

#81 User is online   zurg 

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Posted 28 November 2018 - 12:03 PM

 HardRightBambi, on 28 November 2018 - 07:46 AM, said:

Personally, I don't believe that racism really exists in our country anymore. I outright reject the idea as a left over from yester century. Never once in my entire life have I ever witnessed a single instance of unabashed racism, ever. It's being manufactured into a political platform whereupon the victim is untouchable, irreproachable and somehow sanctioned as preferable. It's faux outrage in the vein of paybacks, reparations-seeking, and entitlement defense.

Some time ago, racism and racial prejudice were noticeable.

Less time ago, laws were written and racism became illegal, which drove outward behavior to be less discriminatory.

Even less time ago, people’s racial integration at schools and jobs and in the public has increased to the point that racism isn’t there, and only prejudices remain.

Prejudices go both ways and I can’t see how they’ll ever totally disappear. However, the nature of prejudices at least from the right tends to be against ideas and principles and not against race or ethnicity or gender or sexual orientation.

The left won’t want the public to understand this because that would begin to erode their victim-blame cycle.
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#82 User is offline   HardRightBambi 

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Posted 28 November 2018 - 01:37 PM

View Postoki, on 28 November 2018 - 11:43 AM, said:

Why thank ya'. And yeah, your spot on it is in fact reverse racism. Why do it? Simple, make enough people a 'victim' and you'll forever have a reliable voting base that will keep you in power as long as they stay dependent, the checks keep coming, and you promise to get them ever more because it's all someone else's fault. Doesn't matter how many years, or generations have passed, times changed or what not. When you can create an entire group or culture of sorts separate from the population that will forever vote for you, you have essentially achieved power for life.

Per my wife, she still has those Carnival Stilts, but never wears the things anymore, also of interest is the fact that to reach my in laws home you must walk up a pretty steep (but short) incline, then flight of stairs. How she could always do it amazes me to this day.
Either way, I don't think people realize that what is often perceived as racism is due to people acting up to a negative stereo type and people simply reacting to it. Simple acts of respect, politeness or better yet kindness go an incredible way. I know this from experience.

Even when an Officer is in the wrong or racist(and yes I have dealt with a few), showing the utmost respect, calmness, and doing your best to show you are not a threat can mean all the difference. I just don't get it either sometimes.

Oki


Again, you are correct. Sort of back on topic: In my personal experience, the few, like count on one hand and have some left over "few" times I've had encounters with police officers I've never, absolutely never had any treat me with anything less than professional courtesy and respect. My father always insisted: "you don't give them any trouble and they usually won't give you any" Truth be told I was the guilty party and lawfully pulled over. I was speeding and got nailed.- My backordered Hermes bag had come in. Important stuff. I don't believe I was given any special treatment because I'm white, drive an expensive car or because I don't dress like a gangsta gangbanger, ghetto trash type. I believe it's because I willingly complied and conducted myself as a private citizen who just got stopped for speeding, and happened to be carrying a concealed weapon. That said, I was immediately obligated to conduct myself properly and then some as mandated for carriers interacting with law enforcement.

The other instance, the officer let me go with a warning. A nice young man. I still know him now since he's made his way to Chief of our local Police and he's a damn good one, I'm a sitting City Council member, and Chair of the City Planning Commission, so I know most officers, but who cares.

Only once have I found myself in the position where I needed to inform an officer that I was carrying a concealed weapon. That was the speeding incident, and shall not be noticed, mentioned nor remembered from this time forward, thank you. When I reached for my glove box for papers, he could see the outline under my top, and scared the hell out of me by how fast he seemed to step back, I knew exactly what had happened at that moment and put both my hands in plain sight, keeping them there. I sat back up as calmly as I could, taking 10 and 2 with a death grip but frankly I was terrified. I immediately complied with my state's protocol and safety training, disclosed, and asked him how he wanted me to proceed, doing precisely what was asked of me, calmly, politely and as non threateningly as I could manage told him I didn't have a round chambered I didn't want to run the risk of failing to fully inform, but I didn't say, "gun" using "concealed weapon with an inserted full mag on safe and holstered. He was very cautious but implicitly professional. I admit I had a lump in my throat because, there was another in the squad car who was taking pointed notice and had gotten out, behind his open door. I had thoughts of don't twitch a muscle, Bambi. I could only imagine what would go through my mind if I were in his shoes and a citizen was carrying concealed hardware under her shirt. I was driving with my blazer off so my cami outlined my gun, easily. I was completely legal and knew I had nothing to fear but a speeding ticket or my own stupidity. It was a polite, congenial exchange and I admitted to knowing I was speeding. Why lie? In the end, he cited me for 60 in a 55, when he could've rightfully got me for significantly more. So good manners do go a long way. No further mention nor discussion was made over my lawful right to carry once I openly complied and properly provided my permit, proving that it's unwise to precipitate/invite trouble through the door. Sometimes, good manners are lost upon some people/situations but you're Right overall, Oki.
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#83 User is offline   oki 

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Posted 28 November 2018 - 09:18 PM

View PostHardRightBambi, on 28 November 2018 - 01:37 PM, said:

Again, you are correct. Sort of back on topic: In my personal experience, the few, like count on one hand and have some left over "few" times I've had encounters with police officers I've never, absolutely never had any treat me with anything less than professional courtesy and respect. My father always insisted: "you don't give them any trouble and they usually won't give you any" Truth be told I was the guilty party and lawfully pulled over. I was speeding and got nailed.- My backordered Hermes bag had come in. Important stuff. I don't believe I was given any special treatment because I'm white, drive an expensive car or because I don't dress like a gangsta gangbanger, ghetto trash type. I believe it's because I willingly complied and conducted myself as a private citizen who just got stopped for speeding, and happened to be carrying a concealed weapon. That said, I was immediately obligated to conduct myself properly and then some as mandated for carriers interacting with law enforcement.

The other instance, the officer let me go with a warning. A nice young man. I still know him now since he's made his way to Chief of our local Police and he's a damn good one, I'm a sitting City Council member, and Chair of the City Planning Commission, so I know most officers, but who cares.

Only once have I found myself in the position where I needed to inform an officer that I was carrying a concealed weapon. That was the speeding incident, and shall not be noticed, mentioned nor remembered from this time forward, thank you. When I reached for my glove box for papers, he could see the outline under my top, and scared the hell out of me by how fast he seemed to step back, I knew exactly what had happened at that moment and put both my hands in plain sight, keeping them there. I sat back up as calmly as I could, taking 10 and 2 with a death grip but frankly I was terrified. I immediately complied with my state's protocol and safety training, disclosed, and asked him how he wanted me to proceed, doing precisely what was asked of me, calmly, politely and as non threateningly as I could manage told him I didn't have a round chambered I didn't want to run the risk of failing to fully inform, but I didn't say, "gun" using "concealed weapon with an inserted full mag on safe and holstered. He was very cautious but implicitly professional. I admit I had a lump in my throat because, there was another in the squad car who was taking pointed notice and had gotten out, behind his open door. I had thoughts of don't twitch a muscle, Bambi. I could only imagine what would go through my mind if I were in his shoes and a citizen was carrying concealed hardware under her shirt. I was driving with my blazer off so my cami outlined my gun, easily. I was completely legal and knew I had nothing to fear but a speeding ticket or my own stupidity. It was a polite, congenial exchange and I admitted to knowing I was speeding. Why lie? In the end, he cited me for 60 in a 55, when he could've rightfully got me for significantly more. So good manners do go a long way. No further mention nor discussion was made over my lawful right to carry once I openly complied and properly provided my permit, proving that it's unwise to precipitate/invite trouble through the door. Sometimes, good manners are lost upon some people/situations but you're Right overall, Oki.


I have had a few interactions over the years with our boys and girls in blue. A speeding ticket or two, one recent incident a drunk as F Badgers fan thought my van was his car and our house his. Guy was so wasted he couldn't even sit up in my front yard while the cops where talking to him. Neighbor called it in as he was laying in the street and wandering between homes, when the Police did arrive he was rummaging through my van... THE ONE FREAKEN' TIME I FORGOT TO LOCK IT.
Cops talked to him, made him call a cab and that was the end of it. They where absolute pro's. Even though they didn't or couldn't accept some cold bottles of water I offered them(was very hot out) I think it was appreciated none the less as their demeaner changed from stict to the facts ma'am to thank you but were okay.

I'd say the only negative interaction happened with two of Duncan Oklahoma's finest to me and a friend. Long story short, despite BEING ACTIVE DUTY MILITARY STATIONED AT FORT SILL OKLAHOMA, having valid insurance, license and everything else the first cop the one who pulled me over was sure I needed to have my car registered in Oklahoma. He at least remained calm and professional, the 2nd officer, Officer Peni$ envy was a total b$otch. How I kept my cool and remained so damn polite is beyond me. She literally was threatening to impound my car and arrest me. Finally she thought she'd be cute and call a State Trooper(state highway the runs through town). Man o man.... State Trooper pulls up, turns on his dome light they go trotting over... Next thing I see is him slam his clip board to his seat or floor and his hand waving and moving so fast and hard his car is shaking. COuldn't hear much but man o man was he pi$$ed at them two.

After about 15-20 minutes of ass chewing the first Cop comes over and tries to direct me out of the parking lot almost hitting his cruiser. Then as I was leaving he is RUNNING back to the State Trooper for some more ass chewin'. Why was I pulled over? To this day I am not exactly sure, only thing I can think of is the fact that my friend had been in some stupid trouble and it was a small town on a Saturday night and we politely waved at the Officer when we came to a stop light. But, both the male and female officers had reputations of being total a holes. And, from what I experienced the female officers rep was extremely well earned. Guessing after that one though the Chief took notice from the complaint I am sure the State Trooper filed. Man was he p.o'd I actually felt sorry for them... for a whole second that is.

One thing I learned in Japan was at all times try to be respectful, decent and show kindness. It can change opinions and will open doors. Both figuratively and literally. Even when all one person knows or thinks they knows of another group is negative, meeting one person one time who is nothing like that is at least enough to put doubt in their mind and make a person question what they think is correct.

Oki
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#84 User is offline   BootsieBets 

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Posted 29 November 2018 - 08:47 AM

After being distracted for a day I have come back to this post. Interesting, Ladybird was able to do exactly what Karen suggested the left always does with an argument they can’t win with actual logic. I am acquainted with her through a conservative women’s group here in Colorado. I will pass this post along to her, I think she will get a kick out of how fast we were led down the bunny hole of discussing racism instead of the actual issue she wrote about, which was a “good guy vs bad guy?with a gun. That was our fault, though. We should have stayed on topic.

Now to get back to how irrational the left is on this subject, the University of Michigan is giving its professors hockey pucks to throw at an active shooter in case they are confronted. Makes sense. They are so afraid of guns that if there is a bad guy with a gun on campus, they would rather not be a good guy with a gun, but have a puck to throw at a shooter instead. :blink:
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#85 User is offline   grimreefer 

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Posted 29 November 2018 - 01:17 PM

View PostBootsieBets, on 29 November 2018 - 08:47 AM, said:

After being distracted for a day I have come back to this post. Interesting, Ladybird was able to do exactly what Karen suggested the left always does with an argument they can’t win with actual logic. I am acquainted with her through a conservative women’s group here in Colorado. I will pass this post along to her, I think she will get a kick out of how fast we were led down the bunny hole of discussing racism instead of the actual issue she wrote about, which was a “good guy vs bad guy?with a gun. That was our fault, though. We should have stayed on topic.

Now to get back to how irrational the left is on this subject, the University of Michigan is giving its professors hockey pucks to throw at an active shooter in case they are confronted. Makes sense. They are so afraid of guns that if there is a bad guy with a gun on campus, they would rather not be a good guy with a gun, but have a puck to throw at a shooter instead. :blink:

Yeah... I was surprised by the sudden left turn.


Seems the hockey pucksters are a bit regressive and Luddite. There are more efficient, effective and safer tools available for use in the defense of yourself and others. Even non-lethal ones for the squishier among us. Just sayin'... :whistling:
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