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Amazon picks New York and Northern Virginia for its new headquarters a Rate Topic: -----

#1 User is offline   Ladybird 

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Posted 13 November 2018 - 10:37 AM

Amazon picks New York and Northern Virginia for its new headquarters after year-long search

Updated 10:23 AM ET, Tue November 13, 2018


Amazon picks New York and Northern Virginia for its new headquarters after year-long search
By Kaya Yurieff, CNN Business
Updated 10:23 AM ET, Tue November 13, 2018

New York (CNN Business)After running a year-long competition that drew interest from hundreds of cities and a number of states, Amazon has chosen New York City and Northern Virginia to split duty as its second headquarters.

On Tuesday, Amazon announced it has chosen New York's Long Island City and Virginia's Arlington for HQ2.
The development projects promise to bring the cities a giant infusion of high-paying jobs and tax revenue, but are almost certain to draw fire from critics concerned about their impact on infrastructure and property values.
The search began in September 2017 when Seattle-based Amazon announced it would start accepting proposals for what quickly became known as HQ2.

During the process, Amazon narrowed 238 bids to 20 finalists, including Chicago, Denver, Indianapolis, Nashville and Miami. Executives traveled across the United States -- and to one Canadian city -- to tour sites to find the company's next home.

Amazon's criteria for HQ2 included proximity to a major airport, ability to attract technical talent and a suburban or urban area with over 1 million people.
In a surprise twist, Amazon ultimately decided to choose two winners instead of one. It originally said HQ2 would create 50,000 high-paying jobs and would be a full equal to its Seattle headquarters.

<snip>

Link

Glad I kept my co-op.

This post has been edited by Ladybird: 13 November 2018 - 10:39 AM

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#2 User is offline   Noclevermoniker 

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Posted 13 November 2018 - 12:15 PM

Occasional Cortex is "outraged".
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#3 User is offline   RedSoloCup 

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Posted 13 November 2018 - 12:26 PM

View PostNoclevermoniker, on 13 November 2018 - 12:15 PM, said:

Occasional Cortex is "outraged".




It goes against everything She Guevera stands for....<censored> her
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#4 User is offline   BootsieBets 

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Posted 13 November 2018 - 12:47 PM

Iím actually glad Denver didnít get it. Our fair city was throwing tax credits at Bezos like Halloween candy to come here. My thought is, if the richest man in the world wants to build a new headquarters somewhere, why does he need for the little people to be taxed up the wazoo for it. All of the business people here, both conservative and progressives, were saying how great it would be. All I could see was another increase for infrastructure, taxes for roads (that wouldnít get fix, we already canít get them fixed), already high cost of living skyrocketing. Let New York have them.
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#5 User is offline   Natural Selection 

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Posted 13 November 2018 - 01:09 PM

View PostBootsieBets, on 13 November 2018 - 12:47 PM, said:

Iím actually glad Denver didnít get it. Our fair city was throwing tax credits at Bezos like Halloween candy to come here. My thought is, if the richest man in the world wants to build a new headquarters somewhere, why does he need for the little people to be taxed up the wazoo for it. All of the business people here, both conservative and progressives, were saying how great it would be. All I could see was another increase for infrastructure, taxes for roads (that wouldnít get fix, we already canít get them fixed), already high cost of living skyrocketing. Let New York have them.


Amazon will generate more tax revenue for New York than it received in tax breaks.

(source)
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#6 User is offline   Censport 

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Posted 13 November 2018 - 01:10 PM

View PostBootsieBets, on 13 November 2018 - 12:47 PM, said:

Iím actually glad Denver didnít get it. Our fair city was throwing tax credits at Bezos like Halloween candy to come here. My thought is, if the richest man in the world wants to build a new headquarters somewhere, why does he need for the little people to be taxed up the wazoo for it. All of the business people here, both conservative and progressives, were saying how great it would be. All I could see was another increase for infrastructure, taxes for roads (that wouldnít get fix, we already canít get them fixed), already high cost of living skyrocketing. Let New York have them.

Same for Nashville (we did get a hub though). The politicians were climbing all over each other to kiss his butt. At the same time, they were evicting businesses and events from properties so they could give that property to billionaire developers for a Major League Soccer stadium. An average of 108 people move to Nashville every day, and it's been that way for a few years. That doesn't even count the tourists! Crime is on the rise here. My neighborhood, which has been quiet for decades, has had a slew of armed robberies, carjackings, and two drive-by shootings. Yet the city is cutting the budget for the police and fire departments. And don't even get me started on the roads. Where is the money going?
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#7 User is offline   BootsieBets 

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Posted 13 November 2018 - 02:03 PM

View PostNatural Selection, on 13 November 2018 - 01:09 PM, said:

Amazon will generate more tax revenue for New York than it received in tax breaks.

(source)

Maybe. They have a bad reputation though. I donít know if their headquarters will be the same way, but if you do some research on their fulfillment centers ?they suck. He seems to be the kind of socialist that we all know and hate. Amazon takes what they can from the business community and donít give back as much. If Bezos is true to his past, he will get a bunch of H2B visa workers doing the IT, not highly paid US workers. He also gave all his workers a raise to $15.00 an hour with much fanfare, then turned around and quietly eliminated bonuses and overtime so they ended up making less. Of course, that was their own fault to a degree, because they asked for it and got it ?the shaft, so to speak. As far as making up for the tax breaks, I donít know if I have ever heard of tax breaks being paid for. It looks good on paper, but we have been left holding the tax bag here before. I just donít like crony capitalism.
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#8 User is offline   oki 

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Posted 13 November 2018 - 02:26 PM

View PostBootsieBets, on 13 November 2018 - 02:03 PM, said:

Maybe. They have a bad reputation though. I donít know if their headquarters will be the same way, but if you do some research on their fulfillment centers ?they suck. He seems to be the kind of socialist that we all know and hate. Amazon takes what they can from the business community and donít give back as much. If Bezos is true to his past, he will get a bunch of H2B visa workers doing the IT, not highly paid US workers. He also gave all his workers a raise to $15.00 an hour with much fanfare, then turned around and quietly eliminated bonuses and overtime so they ended up making less. Of course, that was their own fault to a degree, because they asked for it and got it ?the shaft, so to speak. As far as making up for the tax breaks, I donít know if I have ever heard of tax breaks being paid for. It looks good on paper, but we have been left holding the tax bag here before. I just donít like crony capitalism.


A lot of the revenue generated can't be directly traced, but it's there none the less.
The only thing really tracked is what is direct from the people who work there and maybe those who provide support.
BUT, there is also the revenue generated 2nd, 3rd, even 4th hand. IE a delivery driver stops at a nearby Gas Station restaurant etc etc buys a meal. That driver and numerous others wouldn't be there in the first place without the business. Taxi drivers who make most of their income from people coming and going to and from there. Much the same thing here with Lambeau Field.

It's very easy to look at how many people are directly employed because you can just do a head count of the number of people who work there, but it's much much harder to see the over all impact 2nd and 3rd order. Wisconsin actually did something pretty novel with Foxcon in order to attract a new plant. If they don't grow and employ the number of people projected they don't get the tax breaks, those are to be phased in as promises are kept.

Oki
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#9 User is offline   Ladybird 

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Posted 13 November 2018 - 02:41 PM

View Postoki, on 13 November 2018 - 02:26 PM, said:

A lot of the revenue generated can't be directly traced, but it's there none the less.
The only thing really tracked is what is direct from the people who work there and maybe those who provide support.
BUT, there is also the revenue generated 2nd, 3rd, even 4th hand. IE a delivery driver stops at a nearby Gas Station restaurant etc etc buys a meal. That driver and numerous others wouldn't be there in the first place without the business. Taxi drivers who make most of their income from people coming and going to and from there. Much the same thing here with Lambeau Field.

It's very easy to look at how many people are directly employed because you can just do a head count of the number of people who work there, but it's much much harder to see the over all impact 2nd and 3rd order. Wisconsin actually did something pretty novel with Foxcon in order to attract a new plant. If they don't grow and employ the number of people projected they don't get the tax breaks, those are to be phased in as promises are kept.

Oki


Plus there are tolls. I donít know about VA, but NY has inter state crossing which average $8.50 and twice as much to cross from Staten Island or NJ. Itís that or public transportation.
NYC residents and (nearby) city of Yonkers residents pay an extra local income tax too.
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#10 User is offline   oki 

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Posted 13 November 2018 - 03:03 PM

View PostLadybird, on 13 November 2018 - 02:41 PM, said:

Plus there are tolls. I donít know about VA, but NY has inter state crossing which average $8.50 and twice as much to cross from Staten Island or NJ. Itís that or public transportation.
NYC residents and (nearby) city of Yonkers residents pay an extra local income tax too.



My guess is they will have more in Northern Virginia due to this alone.

Oki
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#11 User is offline   gravelrash 

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Posted 13 November 2018 - 03:14 PM

Quote

Ocasio-Cortez blasts tax breaks for Amazon, says HQ2 will displace the working class
The Hill | Megan Keller | 13 November 2018


Rep.-elect Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez criticized Amazon on Monday over the news that it has picked Long Island City in Queens as the site of a new headquarters, arguing it will hurt the local community in the New York City borough.

"We've been getting calls and outreach from Queens residents all day about this. The community's response? Outrage," Ocasio-Cortez wrote in the first of a series of tweets over the development.

"Amazon is a billion-dollar company," she wrote. "The idea that it will receive hundreds of millions of dollars in tax breaks at a time when our subway is crumbling and our communities need MORE investment, not less, is extremely concerning to residents here."

Ocasio-Cortez, who is set to take her seat in Congress next year, questioned aspects of Amazon's planned move, saying that it won't necessarily benefit the local community.

"Has the company promised to hire in the existing community?" she tweeted. "What's the quality of jobs ... how many are promised?"

"Displacement is not community development," she wrote. "Shuffling working class people out of a community does not improve their quality of life."

Link


Maybe Amazon can offer scholarships in economics and international relations. That way, more New Yorkers can work as waitresses.
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#12 User is offline   BootsieBets 

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Posted 13 November 2018 - 03:22 PM

View Postoki, on 13 November 2018 - 02:26 PM, said:

A lot of the revenue generated can't be directly traced, but it's there none the less.
The only thing really tracked is what is direct from the people who work there and maybe those who provide support.
BUT, there is also the revenue generated 2nd, 3rd, even 4th hand. IE a delivery driver stops at a nearby Gas Station restaurant etc etc buys a meal. That driver and numerous others wouldn't be there in the first place without the business. Taxi drivers who make most of their income from people coming and going to and from there. Much the same thing here with Lambeau Field.

It's very easy to look at how many people are directly employed because you can just do a head count of the number of people who work there, but it's much much harder to see the over all impact 2nd and 3rd order. Wisconsin actually did something pretty novel with Foxcon in order to attract a new plant. If they don't grow and employ the number of people projected they don't get the tax breaks, those are to be phased in as promises are kept.

Oki

Alright, if you do an incentive program where they donít get tax breaks if the promises arenít met, I would be more supportive of it. Although, I still donít like the idea of tax breaks except in limited circumstances. They also would have to employ people at a pay rate that is comparable to the current community. No funny business with H2B visas. I realize that not all the benefit comes from the direct employment and the amount the company pays into the local taxes.

However, there are also costs the city bears for the extra people coming into the community. If they move to a city and say they will employ 5000, not all of those 5000 people are coming from the local job market. So that means you have benefits and detriments to the local environment. You have to build or improve roads, housing, add schools. There are a lot of peripheral costs to support the additional population. There are extra jobs created, yes. Also, there are extra expenditures. Sometimes growth pays for itself, sometimes it doesnít.

I just think you have to weigh the pros and cons. Even if you have some kind of incentive program, by the time they move, build a business campus, people relocate for jobs, etc., the is a lot of disruption in the local area that may or may not be good for everyone. And Iím not against growth, I just donít want to pay for it out of my pocket to a super wealthy ďsocialist? :thumbsdown:
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#13 User is offline   BootsieBets 

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Posted 13 November 2018 - 03:36 PM

View Postgravelrash, on 13 November 2018 - 03:14 PM, said:

Maybe Amazon can offer scholarships in economics and international relations. That way, more New Yorkers can work as waitresses.

I hate to agree with AOC on anything. As my previous posts point out, I really hate tax breaks for huge companies. She's right, not all those jobs will come from the local community. So, she is correct in asking about that. And hope they have some promises to do some badly needed repair to the infrastructure. I am not a supporter of crony capitalism for this very reason. Boy, that was hard.

It is funny though, Jeff Bezos probably would be a supporter of AOC as far as most of her politics goes.
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#14 User is offline   oki 

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Posted 13 November 2018 - 03:53 PM

View PostBootsieBets, on 13 November 2018 - 03:22 PM, said:

Alright, if you do an incentive program where they donít get tax breaks if the promises arenít met, I would be more supportive of it. Although, I still donít like the idea of tax breaks except in limited circumstances. They also would have to employ people at a pay rate that is comparable to the current community. No funny business with H2B visas. I realize that not all the benefit comes from the direct employment and the amount the company pays into the local taxes.

However, there are also costs the city bears for the extra people coming into the community. If they move to a city and say they will employ 5000, not all of those 5000 people are coming from the local job market. So that means you have benefits and detriments to the local environment. You have to build or improve roads, housing, add schools. There are a lot of peripheral costs to support the additional population. There are extra jobs created, yes. Also, there are extra expenditures. Sometimes growth pays for itself, sometimes it doesnít.

I just think you have to weigh the pros and cons. Even if you have some kind of incentive program, by the time they move, build a business campus, people relocate for jobs, etc., the is a lot of disruption in the local area that may or may not be good for everyone. And Iím not against growth, I just donít want to pay for it out of my pocket to a super wealthy ďsocialist? :thumbsdown:



Oh believe me you are preaching to the Choir here. I have family who live in the Oil Boom corridor of North Dakota and I can relate some stories about what has happened there. Much less how the infrastructure simply wasn't and to a large extent still isn't there to support the massive influx and increases. Especially crime. Although not because of Tax breaks, it is still the result of a massive influx. Here, every other Sunday during the Football season I and every other city resident gets to bear witness to what happens when infrastructure cannot support something. No where near enough parking at Lambeau field, literally to the point of fans having to park on the other side of very busy ROADS not streets on peoples and businesses lawns, to hotels that are booked 50+ miles away and get to set rates at 2-3 times(or more) the normal rate+ a two night minimum stay. Streets and roads which end up so clogged what is normally a 10 minute drive will take upwards of ninety minutes(or more).

I am very much in agreement, if done correctly these breaks can actually be a boon to local economies. BUT, they cannot just be a handout at the expense of the citizens and then the community is left footing a bill when the beneficiaries of these breaks don't or refuse to deliver. Right know there is an on going battle between the state and Kimberly Clark. $100 mil in tax incentives to keep a plants in Neenah and Cold Springs Wisconsin. About 610 jobs are at stake. Question becomes how much will the state, and especially local communities lose. Probably much more over a couple years in lost revenue both directly and indirectly.
IE property values crashing as people move out in mass, businesses which used to rely on plant workers for their existence closing, and the direct loss of the taxes from the business itself. But yeah, I agree there needs to be conditions and rules for it.


Oki
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#15 User is offline   gravelrash 

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Posted 13 November 2018 - 05:03 PM

View PostBootsieBets, on 13 November 2018 - 03:36 PM, said:

I hate to agree with AOC on anything. As my previous posts point out, I really hate tax breaks for huge companies. She's right, not all those jobs will come from the local community. So, she is correct in asking about that. And hope they have some promises to do some badly needed repair to the infrastructure. I am not a supporter of crony capitalism for this very reason. Boy, that was hard.

It is funny though, Jeff Bezos probably would be a supporter of AOC as far as most of her politics goes.


Or, AOC agrees with you. It's the sheer duplicity of the pinkos. They demand that America opens her southern border to an invasion of low-skill, non-English speaking unknowns who haven't had all their shots. Yet when high-skill, good paying jobs come to the neighborhood, they lament the "displacement of the local community". Classic case of NIMBY.

The Amazon employees will most likely vote for the likes of AOC after the locals can no longer afford the rent. It's just that there will be fewer yuppies in the gentrified townhomes and boutiques than there were welfare dependents. That's what has AOC worried. Socialists champion mobs over jobs.
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#16 User is offline   oki 

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Posted 13 November 2018 - 05:20 PM

View Postgravelrash, on 13 November 2018 - 05:03 PM, said:

Or, AOC agrees with you. It's the sheer duplicity of the pinkos. They demand that America opens her southern border to an invasion of low-skill, non-English speaking unknowns who haven't had all their shots. Yet when high-skill, good paying jobs come to the neighborhood, they lament the "displacement of the local community". Classic case of NIMBY.

The Amazon employees will most likely vote for the likes of AOC after the locals can no longer afford the rent. It's just that there will be fewer yuppies in the gentrified townhomes and boutiques than there were welfare dependents. That's what has AOC worried. Socialists champion mobs over jobs.



IT's simple, those with little to no skills and ability to be self sufficient are much more likely to vote Liberal Social Democrat than those with skills, who have jobs and abilities to make them self sufficient.
Create an entire class or group who are dependent on Government for their very existence and you are guaranteed not only a job, but power.

Oki
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#17 User is online   tailgunner 

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Posted 13 November 2018 - 05:33 PM

View Postoki, on 13 November 2018 - 05:20 PM, said:

IT's simple, those with little to no skills and ability to be self sufficient are much more likely to vote Liberal Social Democrat than those with skills, who have jobs and abilities to make them self sufficient.
Create an entire class or group who are dependent on Government for their very existence and you are guaranteed not only a job, but power.

Oki



The reason for NAFTA and Most favoured nation for China.

This post has been edited by tailgunner: 13 November 2018 - 05:35 PM

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#18 User is online   Dean Adam Smithee 

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Posted 13 November 2018 - 07:03 PM

View PostBootsieBets, on 13 November 2018 - 03:36 PM, said:

I hate to agree with AOC on anything. As my previous posts point out, I really hate tax breaks for huge companies. She's right, not all those jobs will come from the local community. So, she is correct in asking about that. And hope they have some promises to do some badly needed repair to the infrastructure. I am not a supporter of crony capitalism for this very reason. Boy, that was hard.

It is funny though, Jeff Bezos probably would be a supporter of AOC as far as most of her politics goes.


:yeahthat:

As a small biz owner, I *like* tax breaks for business. But... if a competitor gets a GREATER tax break than me, just for moving in? THEN I have something to say about them, the horse they rode in on, and their little dog too.

Constitutionally, this should fall under the 'equal protection' clause.
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#19 User is online   Dean Adam Smithee 

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Posted 13 November 2018 - 07:17 PM

View PostBootsieBets, on 13 November 2018 - 12:47 PM, said:

Iím actually glad Denver didnít get it. Our fair city was throwing tax credits at Bezos like Halloween candy to come here. My thought is, if the richest man in the world wants to build a new headquarters somewhere, why does he need for the little people to be taxed up the wazoo for it. All of the business people here, both conservative and progressives, were saying how great it would be. All I could see was another increase for infrastructure, taxes for roads (that wouldnít get fix, we already canít get them fixed), already high cost of living skyrocketing. Let New York have them.


:yeahthat:

Same in the Atlanta area. One locale even offered to rename itself "Amazon GA".

Reminds me of a hooker I once encountered on South Orange Blossom Trail in Orlando, Fl (WAY back in the (pre-AIDS) day of the late '70s). I asked, "what's your name?" She replied, "Well, for $20 you can call me anything you want."

Same concept, except on a "Municipal" scale.
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#20 User is offline   gravelrash 

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Posted 13 November 2018 - 10:29 PM

View Postoki, on 13 November 2018 - 05:20 PM, said:

IT's simple, those with little to no skills and ability to be self sufficient are much more likely to vote Liberal Social Democrat than those with skills, who have jobs and abilities to make them self sufficient.
Create an entire class or group who are dependent on Government for their very existence and you are guaranteed not only a job, but power.

Oki


That's just it. Look at what has been going on since 1901. Our Constitution, our Foundation is precipice on a classless society with emphasis on individual rights. The push has been for tribalism, Balkanization, and grievance-mongering. PRESIDENT Donald J. Trump is (surprisingly, amazingly, and thankfully) countering with a positive message of "you do you" not "you vote how we told your parents to vote".
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